Change of Servercategories + Points/difficulty Level

[Forris]

You do not learn the mod by playing novice maps(like really easy ones).
I started playing on ddmax.classic and ddmax.pro and even we did the parts with like 4people we all had fun and improved from time to time.
Aswell those maps were interresting for us, because they were hard, challenging and didnt had that much finishes.
If you really wanna become a pro, play maps you are usually not able to finish. Only there you will improve!

[kamillentee]

OK if I wanna learn ddrace as a beginner I start with some brutal map since I cant finish it.

[gdin]

I like the idea of a newcomer server. All the maps could be worth 0 points, and be tutorial types of maps to help learn the game. So they would be there if people want to learn from the bottom - however some people like to jump right in with hard maps.

When I started teeworlds, I began with hard maps and stuck with them. You learn faster that way, and having a greater challenge is more rewarding. It would be very frustrating if points were needed to unlock various servers (especially since I play with fake names a lot). People can read, so let them choose the server they want, and try any difficulty - I don't see a need to limit options.

The torture server is a fun idea too. Simply the name of the server will put those hard maps up on a higher pedestal than they already are, and the added points could be a greater incentive to attempt finishing them.

[RayB.]

Newcomer server without points as rewards would be dumb. Who would play on a server without rewards when he can play also easy maps with rewards. I also enjoyed playing this mod after farming points(DDmax was only funny with the right guys in t0). Now I doesn't care about points but I like to play it neverthless.
Just let them newcomers play what they want they will have fun anyway.
@kamillentee brutal maps like Naufrage are also nice for beginners they can try everything over and over in big groups or just go on a full brutal server and try to pass the first parts with help. This are challenges which makes also fun.
But atleast the newcomers wouldn't know how to find the right maps when they haven't experience with teeworlds.

[kamillentee]

RayB not talking about Naufrage 'newcomers'. I and I guess all here who share ideas to learn beginners the basics are talking about these players who are not even able to climb the first wall in naufrage 2

[Leah]

The problem here is not making maps or a different srv, i think its about leading the new players to the maps where they can improve.. So far i know people just join novice/moderate srv which are filled with players (they dont look at the stars). The map they play should be fun tho.. i introduced a new player to caventure, even tho its listed moderate. He liked it, played it a few times and then finished the whole series. Even on super easy maps they would need their time to figure out what to do, but its just the normal learning process of ddrace.

[Frr]

Completely agree with Teengoten.

As i said before, best way is a complex function to rate map.
Like some function like (skillcap+idealtime+faily rate)*serverhardeness(type,etc).
For example u can get 1 pts for very basic map and 500 for Generic. And nextgen of "hardeness" generic 2 can be 1500 pts. Which rating based on the same function. Then u will never got situation when u need to rerate something, bcs new maps become harder.

Imo it would be really great to have a new structure with rerated maps and such...but even if you manage to rerate 5 maps per day (which would be a pretty insane amount on long-term) you would need over a year to rerate all of these (almost) 2k maps.

Not true.
We can implement new system in a hidden mode until we've finished all reratings.

I personally can rerate 50 maps in a day (not without mistakes, ofc, but there are other ppl who can help with that.)
U can simply overlook the map and rate it, bcs in mind u know how to beat all parts without action.
All what u need to know: ideal time (can be grabbed from top1), skill needed (some kind of scale), fail rate (like 1-10) and multiply by server grade. Most of the maps will take 1 min for getting rate.
For rate true hard maps we need some pro's opinion, like milk, kayumi, etc.

With good company we could rerate 2000 maps in a week.

And the very most needed function in ddnet - voting for 1-2-3 worst maps every month, and erase (move to archive) it after vote has been done. As qualification we could use 2k+ pts rate. Or something other.
It absolutely necessary, otherwise ddnet will sink under lowtier gameplay maps as it happens right now. And that way authors will edit they own maps for bring it to new standarts, or so.

Second most neccessarily function is a "Vote after finish, rate "map enjoyable" after has finished.

Note:
Today i played with newcomer with 30 pts. I managed to finish with him ddmax 1 star. It was very hard for him.
And guess what? His favorite map is Out of Castle!

I agree, that maps at novice are incredible hard for newcomers, who can't even move themselves by hook.

Sry for creepy english, i'm kinda sleepy.

[Alex]

Question:
Anybody knows a newcomer?

I guess the new players haven't a look in the forum, they just wanna play. They don't read something.
It would help, if there are separate server notifications like "If you get struggle, ask any Helpers they will explain the Part!"
But.. there must be some experienced player as "Helper" and they must be often online.


By the way.. some day i talked with someone about a "login-system-ingame".
As on Build-Servers. So there aren't fakers and DDNet can give special players some titles like "Admin, Tester, ..." What would you think about this?


Greets. LanuX

[Frr]

Great idea also.

[Teengoten]

LanuX, I mentioned a login-system in my first post on this topic. (Where I talked about special colours for the people who finish maps on 5. Server):

The problem with this would be that you can change your name in every, so we'd need an account system and I don't know if this is possible or this easy to program..

And Frr ist right, it's not this hard to rerate maps with the system (how long, how faily, other claims, etc.)

I can ask some Newcomer to read this thread and give their opinion, at least I know three atm. 1 of them will surely give his opinion, so I'll try to convince him.