How do you make a releasable map?

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Skystrife
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How do you make a releasable map?

Post by Skystrife »

Hello, I made a brutal map that I showed to a bunch of ppl who said they liked it(not testers), but then I asked BamBam(a tester) to test it and see if he liked it, and from testing it with me he told me that i have a lot of good ideas but its a bad map... I really don't understand this at all. I asked him many times to explain to me what is wrong with the map, and he just kept giving me vague answers and telling me that the map wont be released. I would like this map to be released but that isnt my main goal. I want to learn how to make a map that could be released. some parts in my map are very creative parts that I have never seen before, and when ppl play it, they dont know what to do at first, but once i show them(or they figure it out themselves) they are like ohhhh i get it.... so i feel like I addressed the creative and different aspect, and other parts are "standard" parts as bambam told me but i also dont understand how you can make an entire map with only new parts never seen before. he tells me that these parts are annoying, and that some parts are "too hard", or sketchy (he said that for most parts in map) but this is a brutal map so parts are intended to be very hard. idk what star brutal it would be bc i am not a tester, but because all of the parts are very hard, I believe that it is balanced because there is no "easy" parts. at the end of the testing of the map, I asked bambam why he doesnt think it will be released and he replied by saying it is not a good map and other vague responses. I asked him further questions and he even told me he doesnt want to tell me what is wrong with my map. i kept asking because I want to learn and have the ability to make a map that is releasable, and the only things he told me were that the starting solo edge jumps were "too standard" and "annoying" and that I need to think of something else to add on to that in place of the edge jumps. He also told me that the end gores were "standard" and "not creative" but I still dont understand how one can make creative gores. He told me to look at released maps for refrence on what to do better, and when making this map I did. I noticed a lot of brutal maps have faily gores at the end, so I decided that would be a good way to finish it off. He told me however to completely get rid of the gores bc they would be annoying or something. This doesnt make since to me because a great number of released brutal maps have gores at the end.

Ps. The map does not have a real name yet and it is 'Skystrife'sMap' on test server if you would like to test it

I am not making this post to hate on bambam or to say that testers are not doing their job right. i am also not doing this to just beg for my map to be released. I am making this because I truly dont understand what is good and what isnt good mapping because the only feedback from the tester that I was getting was that it was a bad map. I just want some experienced testers to test my map and say if it is releasable or not, and I want to be given straight answers as to why it is not releasable and what I can do better in the future to make a good map. even bambam told me that I have a lot of good ideas, so I believe that I can make a good map, but no one will tell me what I am doing wrong.

[mod=CffTime]Topic moved.[/mod]
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Ryozuki
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Re: How do you make a releasable map?

Post by Ryozuki »

Bambam.. is not a good tester
About gores, i recommend, maybe (opinion) to remove it and put some parts there too. Usually people think it's just filling to make the map longer.


http://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2419
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Lady Saavik
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Re: How do you make a releasable map?

Post by Lady Saavik »

Gores is cool, everyone likes it.
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BannZay
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Re: How do you make a releasable map?

Post by BannZay »

Ryozuki wrote: i recommend, maybe (opinion) to remove it and put some parts there too. Usually people think it's just filling to make the map longer
Yea, i`m not agree too. Gores - nice thing

By the way we can test your map live, so I can explain exactly why I guess so about all of my verdict about your map. Use PM if you wanna this.
Welf
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Re: How do you make a releasable map?

Post by Welf »

Short about map quality:
How to make a releaseable map: don't make it annoying, no stupid failparts, no time waste parts, no luck parts, no parts where people have to wait for a dumb reason, no boring overused parts (e.g. a simple edgehook in a brutal map)
Hot to make a good map: find some interesting parts, think about what is possible, what could be different in YOUR map, (there are some more possibilities to make it good)

If you want real explanations about map quality and stuff like that it would need some time.
About your map in map testing section:
-you are using too many simple edgehooks
-some parts are dumb faily: a faily rocketfly and a tight gores at the end where it is hard to save others
-some stuff is weird (hard to say in words)
-e.g. the filter: you just have to know when to use what, it is really annoying on the first trys, because you only can do it with alot of dumb fails (=time waste), the filter is not super bad, but for me not enjoyable (maybe others will like it i am not sure)
(i didn't understand all parts since i only looked at the parts)

If you want more details search for me at the servers (i am mostly online at the evening/night) and i can show you what i would change at your map
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BamBam
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Re: How do you make a releasable map?

Post by BamBam »

mega exaggeration Skystrife, I tried to be as clear as possible, and tell you what I think is wrong, but it's really hard when you are super adamant about it.
i exist
so do you
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Skystrife
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Re: How do you make a releasable map?

Post by Skystrife »

I know how to map, but i want to learn how to make a releasable map, like what specifically is wrong with my map that makes it not releasable
BannZay wrote: By the way we can test your map live, so I can explain exactly why I guess so about all of my verdict about your map. Use PM if you wanna this.
Yes I think that would be helpful to test it live :D
Welf wrote: About your map in map testing section:
-you are using too many simple edgehooks
-some parts are dumb faily: a faily rocketfly and a tight gores at the end where it is hard to save others
-some stuff is weird (hard to say in words)
-e.g. the filter: you just have to know when to use what, it is really annoying on the first trys, because you only can do it with alot of dumb fails (=time waste), the filter is not super bad, but for me not enjoyable (maybe others will like it i am not sure)
(i didn't understand all parts since i only looked at the parts)
i do have many simple edge hooks but a few of them i havent seen anything like them, so they r interesting ideas
I do not see a problem with faily rocketfly bc it is not faily for that long, and gores i could make much less tight, i didnt really think about how hard to save it would be.
the wierd stuff i was trying to be creative and make parts ppl havent seen before :D
its ok that you didnt enjoy the filter, but I like it bc u dont even have to unfreeze urself :D thats the trick, u just laser urself and dj in the freeze so its pretty easy, but ppl dont see that

I could take out a bunch of the simple edge hooks, but then I think it wouldnt even be brutal anymore so idk.
BamBam wrote:mega exaggeration Skystrife, I tried to be as clear as possible, and tell you what I think is wrong, but it's really hard when you are super adamant about it.
I did not make this bc i was angry at u. you just didnt really explain to me what specifically is wrong so I was very confused why u hated the map and said it wouldnt be accepted.
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BamBam
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Re: How do you make a releasable map?

Post by BamBam »

this reminds me of texnonik's "REANIMATE" map

but its a lot better
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[A] Awesome
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Re: How do you make a releasable map?

Post by [A] Awesome »

As welf said make sure your map isnt annoying.
For me annoying means this:
-tight parts
-stupid fails
-unbalanced (e.g. brutal1*-4*)
-time wasting parts
-ugly Background which hurts your eyes
-too mutch uncreative parts
About last point:
A map dont need to be very creative but it should have some new parts and the most important thing about standard parts: its ok to have one but dont multiply them by 10 = for me its ok to have an edgehook in a part but dont make a single part with 10 edgehooks in a row or about gores its ok to use gores in a map but dont make one at the beginning in the middle and at the end and if you make them at the end dont make it to tight=stupid fails=annoying.

I didnt saw your map btw i just wanted to give some tips
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Forris
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Re: How do you make a releasable map?

Post by Forris »

ask other testers or let the community decide....
At every map-release the same kindergarden shit

When it comes to an player opinion, you have my yes vote!
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