Botting

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ChillerDragon
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Re: Botting

Post by ChillerDragon » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:51 pm

worstwish wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:24 pm
why are u guys not banning chillerdragon or destin for actually starting this since the beginning(chillerbot) lmfao
-1 bans are bad
+10 punish ChillerDragon who started all this
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Cellegen
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Re: Botting

Post by Cellegen » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:32 pm

ChillerDragon wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:51 pm
worstwish wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:24 pm
why are u guys not banning chillerdragon or destin for actually starting this since the beginning(chillerbot) lmfao
-1 bans are bad
+10 punish ChillerDragon who started all this
guess it why (chillerbot -.-)
RestInHell. - Team Leader

GG Kid
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heinrich5991 thanks for talking to us :)

Post by GG Kid » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:27 am

heinrich5991 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:14 pm
I think it might let people stop and think: Should I actually bot on a race? After all, the player name is all a player has, being identified as botter is definitely a hit to the reputation
i agree that in a game like DDnet where ranks and score's are a big part of DDrace cheater's should be punished, but another big part of DDrace is just playing the game, whether it be with friends your dummy or stranger's, it's fun, so to say that a name is all a player has is not true, they have there friends and there skill which is all they need to enjoy the game, but getting ranks is a very nice bonus, and you can build a rep with those ranks, and damaging that rep is the ONLY way to punish the player, so i would push for a punishment rather then rendering there name useless
heinrich5991 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:14 pm
No one has talked about a "life" sentence. We've made sure beyond the player names that it was actually the people we're talking about.
What i meant by life sentence, is as a questioned (please answer) are the ban's going to be permanent A.K.A life long, meaning that there names and slight mods (explain) of there name will never be used again

My other post was rather dramatic but my fear is that this might become a regular thing resulting in a list of names that can't be used Slowly getting larger and larger
heinrich5991 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:14 pm
Cheating under a fake name is less attractive, as it basically presents no gain.
that is true, but now it offer's a new way to troll
heinrich5991 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:14 pm
We'll try our hardest not to ban an innocent player.
i respect that and don't think your going to arbitrarily ban people.
heinrich5991 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:14 pm
There were a couple of suspicious ranks shown by the Discord bot,
We've decided to ban for now
does that mean they're not banned for ever

you want to give people who cheat a harsh punishment so that other people will realize cheating will not go unpunished , but you don't want to punish them so harsh to where it feel's unjust. i recommend you let everyone know that if you cheat you will be punished,(maybe a ban) and if that punishment lasts maybe 2 months hopefully when it's over and they can come back they'll realize that cheating is not a good idea

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Re: Botting

Post by Silex » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:09 am

SPSomeone wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:28 pm
heinrich5991 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:53 pm
Does someone have a way to contact Men of Steel (e.g. Discord) and can PM it to me?
sry i dont know who this is
SO unfunny

Learath2
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Re: Are these ban's going to be permanent??? If so here are my thoughts

Post by Learath2 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:20 am

destin wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:09 pm
dIeD wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:41 pm
Imo, the only way to reduce the amount of cheaters is to punish them hard enough, so that others get scared of doing so or let them stop and think: Is cheating worth the risk of getting caught and punished?
Since points is what most people care the most about, you could set the points of proven cheaters permanently to 0. This way there is no need to delete any ranks, or possibly punish innocent teammates.
Other option would be to move all the ranks to another name, like cheaterXY, and remove that name from global and server rankings.
I totally share this opinion and that should be the only way to punish that behaviour. Namebanning is the most useless form of punishment one can imagine. What's the punishment behind it? Wow they can't play with their main names for some time. Do you really think that they care?
They were collecting points on these names, it's not really easy to start over and re-collect all the points. Name-banning is actually one of the few forms of punishment we can reliably hand out given the concept of normal bans don't make much sense in an open-source game.

Should also point out that this is just the first round, consequences are bound to get more severe over time.

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Re: Are these ban's going to be permanent??? If so here are my thoughts

Post by Im 'corneum » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:29 am

Learath2 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:20 am
destin wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:09 pm
dIeD wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:41 pm
Imo, the only way to reduce the amount of cheaters is to punish them hard enough, so that others get scared of doing so or let them stop and think: Is cheating worth the risk of getting caught and punished?
Since points is what most people care the most about, you could set the points of proven cheaters permanently to 0. This way there is no need to delete any ranks, or possibly punish innocent teammates.
Other option would be to move all the ranks to another name, like cheaterXY, and remove that name from global and server rankings.
I totally share this opinion and that should be the only way to punish that behaviour. Namebanning is the most useless form of punishment one can imagine. What's the punishment behind it? Wow they can't play with their main names for some time. Do you really think that they care?
They were collecting points on these names, it's not really easy to start over and re-collect all the points. Name-banning is actually one of the few forms of punishment we can reliably hand out given the concept of normal bans don't make much sense in an open-source game.

Should also point out that this is just the first round, consequences are bound to get more severe over time.
so i just happened to read the ddnet story forum post from deen from 2015. in which he proudly told that nobody has a life ban and that its good. and after years of sp someone vali and many other real trolls you choose to lifeban some botters. i understand that there must be punishment. but lifebans and its "just the first round"?! way togo ddnet! bravo
reply to this post or your mom will die in her sleep tonight

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deen
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Re: Are these ban's going to be permanent??? If so here are my thoughts

Post by deen » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:33 am

Im 'corneum wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:29 am
so i just happened to read the ddnet story forum post from deen from 2015. in which he proudly told that nobody has a life ban and that its good. and after years of sp someone vali and many other real trolls you choose to lifeban some botters. i understand that there must be punishment. but lifebans and its "just the first round"?! way togo ddnet! bravo
They are not banned. Their names are forbidden for an uncommunicated time. Also, I don't claim to have all the wisdom, the current admins put a lot of thought and work into this action and so far it seems good to me.

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Swift
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Re: Botting

Post by Swift » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:28 am

ChillerDragon wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:51 pm
worstwish wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:24 pm
why are u guys not banning chillerdragon or destin for actually starting this since the beginning(chillerbot) lmfao
-1 bans are bad
+10 punish ChillerDragon who started all this
I have seen bots like this ~3-4 years ago... So who started we don't know.
ᕙ(ಠ_ಠ)7

dIeD
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Re: Are these ban's going to be permanent??? If so here are my thoughts

Post by dIeD » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:26 am

Learath2 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:20 am
destin wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:09 pm
dIeD wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:41 pm
Imo, the only way to reduce the amount of cheaters is to punish them hard enough, so that others get scared of doing so or let them stop and think: Is cheating worth the risk of getting caught and punished?
Since points is what most people care the most about, you could set the points of proven cheaters permanently to 0. This way there is no need to delete any ranks, or possibly punish innocent teammates.
Other option would be to move all the ranks to another name, like cheaterXY, and remove that name from global and server rankings.
I totally share this opinion and that should be the only way to punish that behaviour. Namebanning is the most useless form of punishment one can imagine. What's the punishment behind it? Wow they can't play with their main names for some time. Do you really think that they care?
They were collecting points on these names, it's not really easy to start over and re-collect all the points. Name-banning is actually one of the few forms of punishment we can reliably hand out given the concept of normal bans don't make much sense in an open-source game.

Should also point out that this is just the first round, consequences are bound to get more severe over time.
As I understood it, the nameban would be the only punishment and would only last for few weeks. But if it's a permanent thing, or lasts for a longer time (something like 1year+), then I totally agree with you.
You could also think about customizing the punishment, to hit the individual people where it hurts most, e.g. excluding them from forum/discord for some time or refusing to release maps made by them.

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Re: Are these ban's going to be permanent??? If so here are my thoughts

Post by GG Kid » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:12 pm

destin wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:09 pm
You could also think about customizing the punishment, to hit the individual people where it hurts most, e.g. excluding them from forum/discord for some time or refusing to release maps made by them.
i don't like the idea of excluding them the from forum because if there banned then how can they share there opinion.
what do you think of this idea :idea:: where for a period of time whenever they join a server, a server message will pop up and tell everyone that this player has been caught cheating thus giving them some kick back from our player's who respect ranks

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