Botting

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heinrich5991
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Re: Are these ban's going to be permanent??? If so here are my thoughts

Post by heinrich5991 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:14 pm

Thanks for the interesting points you brought up, GG Kid.
GG Kid wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:00 pm
Banning the names of those caught cheating (or just being suspicious) and those thought to be involved, will not stop them from cheating But It Will change the names they use when doing so, whether the names they choose to use is there own, something new or just an innocent player, banning whose name's will Solve Nothing.
I think it might let people stop and think: Should I actually bot on a race? After all, the player name is all a player has, being identified as botter is definitely a hit to the reputation. Cheating under a fake name is less attractive, as it basically presents no gain.
GG Kid wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:00 pm
bottom line, thanks to the anonymity of ddnet (which we love) anyone can play with any name, so if you ban a name it's anyones best guess if you actually brought justice to the right person, or you just punished some unlucky player (sad), with a "life" sentence you offer no reason for redemption instead you breed rebellion
No one has talked about a "life" sentence. We've made sure beyond the player names that it was actually the people we're talking about.
GG Kid wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:00 pm
on the surface this will only affect a few, but it leaves the rest of us in fear that we too could be banned for life, by that of dislike by the admins or be framed by another player, either way this put's a dark shadow over DDnet, and tasks the admins with the job of deciding "to ban or not to ban" which can be easily jaded by favor over one compared to another
As said, we've made sure that we're only banning people who actually botted.
GG Kid wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:00 pm
My suggested course of action. ban the names in question and future player's found to be cheating, for some period less then two month's. this gives the player motivation for redemption, and if a player Is wrongly banned then whey can still have fun in the mean time knowing all they're effort is not lost. because you can't fix people there is no such thing as a solution, but i feel that this is a compromise that will give you most of the benefits without all the drawbacks
We'll try our hardest not to ban an innocent player.

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meew'
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Re: Are these ban's going to be permanent??? If so here are my thoughts

Post by meew' » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:22 pm

heinrich5991 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:14 pm

We'll try our hardest not to ban an innocent player.
men of steel was innocent he has never finished anything using a bot
911 mapping police

SPSomeone
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Re: Are these ban's going to be permanent??? If so here are my thoughts

Post by SPSomeone » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:39 pm

meew' wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:22 pm
heinrich5991 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:14 pm

We'll try our hardest not to ban an innocent player.
men of steel was innocent he has never finished anything using a bot
rip i finished something with bot and no namebananerd
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Men of Steel'
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Re: Botting

Post by Men of Steel' » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:15 pm

-
Last edited by Men of Steel' on Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

dIeD
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Re: Are these ban's going to be permanent??? If so here are my thoughts

Post by dIeD » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:41 pm

> I think it might let people stop and think: Should I actually bot on a race? After all, the player name is all a player has, being identified as botter is definitely a hit to the reputation. Cheating under a fake name is less attractive, as it basically presents no gain.

Then why not publish the list of botter?


Also the problem with this approach is that some people already have a bad reputation or just don't care about it.
I saw some banned players on a server yesterday discussing how their bot could have been detected, according to the motto "what do we need to do so that we don't get caught next time", instead of showing some remorse or regret.
Imo, the only way to reduce the amount of cheaters is to punish them hard enough, so that others get scared of doing so or let them stop and think: Is cheating worth the risk of getting caught and punished?

Since points is what most people care the most about, you could set the points of proven cheaters permanently to 0. This way there is no need to delete any ranks, or possibly punish innocent teammates.
Other option would be to move all the ranks to another name, like cheaterXY, and remove that name from global and server rankings.

destin
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Re: Are these ban's going to be permanent??? If so here are my thoughts

Post by destin » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:09 pm

dIeD wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:41 pm
Then why not publish the list of botter?
Really good idea to have some transparency around here.
dIeD wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:41 pm
Also the problem with this approach is that some people already have a bad reputation or just don't care about it.
I saw some banned players on a server yesterday discussing how their bot could have been detected, according to the motto "what do we need to do so that we don't get caught next time", instead of showing some remorse or regret.
1.png
2.png
Sorry for my fellow foreigners but I think it's easy to understand what they're talking about. I posted the screens to support dIeD's statement so that nobody can argue against it. FYI (1) is Starkiller.
dIeD wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:41 pm
Imo, the only way to reduce the amount of cheaters is to punish them hard enough, so that others get scared of doing so or let them stop and think: Is cheating worth the risk of getting caught and punished?
Since points is what most people care the most about, you could set the points of proven cheaters permanently to 0. This way there is no need to delete any ranks, or possibly punish innocent teammates.
Other option would be to move all the ranks to another name, like cheaterXY, and remove that name from global and server rankings.
I totally share this opinion and that should be the only way to punish that behaviour. Namebanning is the most useless form of punishment one can imagine. What's the punishment behind it? Wow they can't play with their main names for some time. Do you really think that they care?

Now another thing. There are other guys we know should lose all their points for being busted for botting on DDNet Servers. With this post I suggest to remove all points from Saro and DataClaw too. Saro for botting some of his Aim ranks with Baumalein client. DataClaw for being the first abusing Chillerbot on DDNet and spreading the knowledge of the existence of such a client. Maybe other players should follow on this list but we'll see.

heinrich5991
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Re: Botting

Post by heinrich5991 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:53 pm

Does someone have a way to contact Men of Steel (e.g. Discord) and can PM it to me?

Silex
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Re: Botting

Post by Silex » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:51 pm

I showed the siO bot in forum/youtube months/years ago and nobody took it serious. Now you have it.

To quote Welf : 'he wont make it public or use it to finish maps'

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worstwish
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Re: Botting

Post by worstwish » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:24 pm

why are u guys not banning chillerdragon or destin for actually starting this since the beginning(chillerbot) lmfao
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SPSomeone
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Re: Botting

Post by SPSomeone » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:28 pm

heinrich5991 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:53 pm
Does someone have a way to contact Men of Steel (e.g. Discord) and can PM it to me?
sry i dont know who this is
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