Genericore 8 by Åmol [Insane]

[Ravie]

You can't possibly be serious, nobody is asking to change the design, just fix the obvious mapping issues with the midground. It's not that much work, come on.

[Welf]

I still have a point lol. The design is hard to understand for me because there are too many contrasts. Maybe others agree?...
Its not about answering with an argument. You can only assume the truth by knowing many opinions.
I agree with Ravie. It fucking hurts my brain and i consider these tiles as an attack. If that is not a bug, tiles can be used however people want and there is no design bug ever.

[Konsti]

Disagree

[mokuz]

I still have a point lol. The design is hard to understand for me because there are too many contrasts. Maybe others agree?...
Its not about answering with an argument. You can only assume the truth by knowing many opinions.
I agree with Ravie. It fucking hurts my brain and i consider these tiles as an attack. If that is not a bug, tiles can be used however people want and there is no design bug ever.

Well "design bug" is when otherwise consitant design, like randomised generic_unhookables, is at some point only used one type of tile, or one corner missing in freeze, thats a design "bug" unless its intended ofc, but i agree maybe, the design is bad

i'd suggest using quads instead of tiles as jungle_midground

[jao]

Tested with Freezestyler, Starkiller and Tropo.

Map generally looks good, though you should adjust a few things to make it less punishing and anoying:

SpoilerShow

In team 0 you can skip through the tunnel if you get shotgun and go back

screenshot_2018-01-11_21-15-50.png (375.83 KiB) Viewed 7749 times

These 2 freeze tiles should be removed, otherwise the down guy will almost always touch the freeze and fail

screenshot_2018-01-11_21-18-04.png (343.54 KiB) Viewed 7749 times

Add hookable here to allow failed players in team 0/big teams to be saved

screenshot_2018-01-11_21-19-45.png (367.21 KiB) Viewed 7749 times

You should add unhook here so that players that fail the hammerfly above don't die

screenshot_2018-01-11_21-20-24.png (399.18 KiB) Viewed 7749 times

Unplayable part in team 0, no space for bigger groups and takes too much effort to reset if you don't pass

screenshot_2018-01-11_21-21-33.png (402.11 KiB) Viewed 7749 times

Entity bug

screenshot_2018-01-11_21-25-35.png (437.24 KiB) Viewed 7749 times

There should be a platform here to make the part playable for bigger groups. One hookable isn't enough ;)

screenshot_2018-01-11_21-33-59.png (490.28 KiB) Viewed 7749 times

You have to block the area under the finish off or change it completly, otherwise one dying person will kill all people in a team (see Stronghold 2).
Also, you should take care about what Welf and Ravie mentioned

[Åmol]

A few improvements, I don't agree to everything you mentioned jao.

[jao]

Why do you disagree? Do you think the map shouldn't be playable in big groups? I've talked with a few people and they all complained that the map is lacking space, playability for team 0 and that the design is not clear. Tbh it doesn't make sense to release it in its current form, players will only be angry and at max try to finish for points, not for fun.

Btw finish is not very obviously marked, could be anything if you don't check it in entities.

[Åmol]

ok I guess I need to fend for my work once again

@pic1: Agree & fixed.
@pic2: hammer guy is supposed to get freezed if you haven't figgured that out yet.
@pic3: I partially agree. It's too easy to save if I cover everything with hookables.
@pic4: Agree & fixed (actually I had this edit pending before even brought up)
@pic5: It's playable for 64 players, just that lots of them are in freeze.
@pic6: That's the best design you can accomplish with the tiles you've got at your disposal.
@pic7: Adding more hookables doesn't fit the part imo, at least I gave you space to stack players where only 1 player is in freeze. My "solution" even breaks the part somewhat.

And about the finish line you're sayin' you can't see... that's very strange since that's the only place on the whole map I've put unfreeze layer on top of freeze layer - doesn't that stand out from the rest of the map? Also, I even lit a lamp at the finish with another color (green to be exact, I've heard Welf got issues with the colors @Welf try ajusting your DVI or HDMI cable, maybe it isn't plugged in correctly) to mark that it's the finish. I know there's another lamp that's also marked green on the map, that lamp on the other hand - is to guide the players. Lets just say that green lamps marks something important that you should notice. Lamps don't usually glow green.

@All_of_you_who_don't_like_my_design: play with entities, but no - In this new version I've now added everything I assume that you dislike to the details section. I hope this will satisfy both Welf and Ravie's settings, if you still got problems just toggle the entities layer, would you?

I also changed this since it doesn't look good imo.
NEW:

OLD:

[jao]

@pic2: hammer guy is supposed to get freezed if you haven't figgured that out yet.

The part is really unfair then, it's pretty hard even without the down guy being frozen and if you fail you completly die.

@pic5: It's playable for 64 players, just that lots of them are in freeze.

Sounds fun.. What is the reason to not change this? Do you want players to suffer?

@pic6: That's the best design you can accomplish with the tiles you've got at your disposal.

Why do you care so much about the design here when you don't even care for a bugless midground (wich you can accomplish with the given tiles)?

And about the finish line you're sayin' you can't see... that's very strange since that's the only place on the whole map I've put unfreeze layer on top of freeze layer - doesn't that stand out from the rest of the map? Also, I even lit a lamp at the finish with another color (green to be exact, I've heard Welf got issues with the colors @Welf try ajusting your DVI or HDMI cable, maybe it isn't plugged in correctly) to mark that it's the finish. I know there's another lamp that's also marked green on the map, that lamp on the other hand - is to guide the players. Lets just say that green lamps marks something important that you should notice. Lamps don't usually glow green.

Don't make players guess what it could be. Maybe it stands out, but I doubt players would associate unfreeze on top of freeze with a finish line.
And about the lamp, those are usually used as pure design details (yes, green lamps too), not to mark something. If you don't clearly state somewhere that it's meant as a marking, it won't work.

@All_of_you_who_don't_like_my_design: play with entities, but no - In this new version I've now added everything I assume that you dislike to the details section. I hope this will satisfy both Welf and Ravie's settings, if you still got problems just toggle the entities layer, would you?

HD's purpose is to make graphic heavy maps playable for people who have a bad PC, not to make maps playable that have a "bad design".

[Ravie]

I noticed you have an edited generic_unhookable with just the 4x4 added, I made generic_unhookable external and added a tileset with just the big unhook, saving about 100kb of file size.
I did it on my own because it's ridiculously little work, but I doubt I could convince you to do it yourself without a long debate. I didn't change anything else, the map is just as buggy as before.